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See the following links for archives of older discussions from previous years. All conversations on these pages are considered to be closed - if you wish to leave a reply for any of those topics, please leave your comment on the current active page.
Archive 1 [2008]
Archive 2 [2009]
Archive 3 [2010] (part 1)
Archive 4 [2010] (part 2)
Archive 5 [2011]
Archive 6 [2012] (part 1)
Archive 7 [2012] (part 2)
Archive 8 [2013] (part 1)
Archive 9 [2013] (part 2)
Archive 10 [2014]

Partnership with the Tales of Wiki?

Hi there, my Name is Akemi, and I'm the Admin of the Tales of wiki. I wantet to ask you if you would like to have a partnership with the Tales of Wiki. I would add Aselia to our partnerlist aswell - of cause. I adopted this wiki about 2 years ago and helped it grow bigger. It's a German wiki wich is till growing, but I think the main cause of Wikia is sharing and spreading information, so I thought it'd be a good thing.

I've seen you have alredy interlangual-links for German on some pages, but I couldn't find it on articles like "Artes" - the Tales of Wiki does have some articles on artes, so we could of cause also use them with our wikis too. I'd concider it a good Idea to share our information ;). As for the artes - because of the variation (regarding their names) in German Tales Games and the fact that e.g. Tales of the Abyss was only released in English - their names are all in Enlgish, so you shouldn't have a problem to find them. But feel free to also have a look on the characters, or Dungeons/Towns (--> Orte) if you like. We'd be happy to start a partnership with Aselia.

Best Regards and a happy New Year: Akemi-tama
{{SUBST:ERS:Vorlage:Akemi-tama/Unterschrift}} 09:46, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

Mayu is currently not active. I don't mind establishing another partnership, so feel free to add our name somewhere. I will do the same on our main page. Thanks.

Arosia (talk) 01:16, January 7, 2015 (UTC)

I know it's actually none if my business but it sounds like Akemi-tama is talking about using Interwiki-links for Artes. Well, that wouldn't work because you can only have one interwiki-partner for one language (we will have articles for Artes soon too). You can add links to each others articles but that won't look like interwiki-links.
And a normal partnership among your wikis is possible of course :)
By the way our Wiki, Pfotenballenklub, is the project of the month January 2015 in the german Wikia-Community :)
Kind regards
~ Vanyar21 ~ (talk) 21:39, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

I sort of just ignored that part of his message, but yes, you are correct. Seeing as how you were the first German wiki to establish a partnership with us, the interwiki link priority for this language belongs to you. Our partnership with the Tales of Wiki is simply a normal one. Congrats on project of the month.

Arosia (talk) 22:08, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah so.

I haven't really "returned" btw. I know it was an abrupt absence, but I had to deal with a sudden lifestyle change now that I have someone new to care for. I really doubt I could be active on any sort of regular basis, though I do have a lot of stuff saved on my computer which really should be cleaned up and posted just to get the weight off my shoulders. I randomly check back on this place, and rather than reply to certain issues I've seen, I merely waited to see what the reactions of others would be. While things are going well, there were some things I somewhat disagreed with, but I'm leaving things up to the current set of active users to handle things based on their own interpretations and interests rather than enforce the things I have always preferred.

>goes back to roleplaying as Shizune
>because ...
>...

Shizune Hakamichi (talk) 00:24, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

You had a baby! It would be great if you could post the stuff you have saved; I vaguely recall you mentioning a decent Keele article you had saved. Also, I'd actually like to hear what things you disagree with, as well as why. I think it's helpful to view things from different perspectives. I have a feeling that one is the location compilation project, which I knew before I even started it would raise some concern. It's the content nuke that's troubling, but the information is still there for a future redesign. Most of the content was shit writing, however, and red links were becoming a serious problem with locations. I think the wiki is doing well also. Lanate and I have our individual projects, and users poke their heads in every now and then. Fortunately, no more plagues like Winxfan and Kikonu *knock on wood*.

Arosia (talk) 00:38, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

For the things that I can recall right now, I wouldn't want to fudge the rules on English voice actors for Abyss, even if they seem to be recognizable. I prefer to keep things strictly no-citation-no-entry for non-credited voices. For the listing of let's plays, I would rather not have this wiki show "support" by recognizing certain LPers over others. I'd rather not have them listed since LPs in general are walkthrough oriented gameplays. And not every LP is of a comparable quality. For instance, MasaeAnela's Vesperia LP, Villene (CreationStationCA)'s Symphonia LP, and others from their circle of friends have a very different style compared to omegaevolution's LPs in general. And omega was a regular user on the old TSF. And Chuggaaconroy's Xenoblade LP might blow everything away as the pinnacle of LPing if you can handle his obnoxious puns. Incidentally, a lot of Chuggaa's LPs are treated as official walkthroughs for some wiki sites, particularly his Zelda videos, but I don't want to make that kind of partnership for this site.
For location compilations, I actually wanted to do this a long time ago, but I never tried to do it myself because I wanted to have each city/locale to have a fairly sizeable blurb to describe them, if they are worth more than a single sentence. As for the removal of individual location pages, while I agree that a lot of it had to be purged, there are cases where some pages can remain separated from the compilations because they may have enough content as is. Basically, the compilation pages would still have an entry for those locations, but there should be links that point to those pages where detail is provided in full, if they exist. The templates will not need to be modified since users who are interested in a particular location will click on that link, leading to the full page automagically, or the redirected section in the compilation page if the full page does not exist. I noticed a comment you made where you wanted the individual location articles for each game to be made all at once, and that is rather unreasonable for an expectation. The pages themselves should be as complete as possible on creation, sure, but having 30 of them done at once before uploading them is rather extreme. I couldn't even do that. It is a lot more flexible to allow pages as they are made, provided they meet quality standards, with the compilation pages updated with links to the appropriate full pages as they are created.
Shizune Hakamichi (talk) 02:14, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

It was my intention to attempt to cite them myself, but I forgot about it. I try my best not to deter random user edits, but citation for English VA is one of our rules—for good reason, too. I'll remove them and work on that some other time. I never understood the fascination some people have with voice actors. As for the Let's Plays and other infrastructural similarities, my goal has been to gradually make this wiki an encyclopedia-oriented database that also serves as a sort of hub for the Tales community. I don't mean injecting social media, but I feel as if pages such as those are both convenient and helpful. I do see your point, however, but it was never my intention to privilege certain LPers over others. I simply don't know of any others. I'm also not looking for partnerships, but I have been contacting LPers on lparchive for permission to use their screenshots on the wiki. It's difficult to contact some, but I've had nothing but success so far with the ones I have been able to contact. I like LPs, and I think all of the ones on lparchive are excellent. Are the LPs you're referring to on YouTube? I haven't investigated, but I would like to comprise a stronger list if you're willing to provide links. There's also the Something Awful forums, which, to my understanding, is where lparchive derives.

From what I purged, I found little information to be worthwhile—and I'm considering this in terms of content and writing. In other words, the information was either too walkthrough-oriented or poorly written. Note that Winxfan, Juan Ma, and XZone were primarily responsible for the ToV, TotA, and ToL location pages (somewhat respectively). The only reason most of them have survived this long is due to my proofing and editing them. I agree that certain locations should have their own pages, but I'm inclined to say that these should only be city/town/village locations, leaving dungeons to remain on the world/country pages. That comment I made was a bit bold, and my opinion changed after completing (for the most part) the project. What I don't want is for oddball pages such as Cape Fortress (ToE) to have its own page while none of the major locations in the game have any. Granted, I'm not concerned with this at all, as I know no one will ever create any such location page again—unless it's me, Lanate, or possibly even you. I know this wiki's glory editing days are gone, but it's still a substantial wiki. I track our stats on Wikia often. Ideally, locations will take a direction in a similar fashion to the existing ToP location pages, which Lanate did. The significance of the location should exceed beyond the protagonists' actions and cite the location's geography, shop names, etc. If a location page can't manage to do these things, it's probably doesn't need to exist in the first place. Also, with those pages, there's a nice blend of compilation and independent pages, which I think works best.

Arosia (talk) 02:59, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

I'll go by your judgment for the location stuffs then. The reason there were so many red links on the templates was because a certain user was practically demanding to have templates for locations, and I scrapped those original attempts and created one for most of the games to deter other efforts to do the same. That is why some things were sorted as they were, and it really annoys me that the same user went back to one of those templates to "fix" the unaffiliated locations, which as far as I was concerned, fit perfectly fine where they were. But the actual means of grouping everything ultimately doesn't matter to me. As for a hub for Tales stuffs, I already value Abyssal Chronicles as precisely that, even before the time that the community got fragmented by the loss of TSF. If that's your goal, then it's up to you. I don't really pay much attention to LPs and I just happen to know those which I listed because I see them mentioned somewhat often when they stream on Twitch.
One more thing I remember is that you were deleting a lot of redirects, particularly those which were misspelled. I kept those there so people that search using those wrong spellings can go to the correct page, rather than lead them to believe there is no page for the topic and then create it themselves. It was a problem before with Aifread and some other pages. It doesn't really encourage wrong spelling so much as it corrects the error for them by redirecting them to the real thing. I'm certainly not going to remember that there is a dash in God-Generals when I search for it. And some of these "misspellings" were official Japanese spellings using English letters (Amy Burklight), or legitimate translations used in some fan trans patches (Luca Milda, even if I don't agree with it). There were also some redirects that I kept because some posts on other sites linked to our pages using older page titles. This reason is mostly obsolete, however, with the loss of the TSF and the years that have passed since some of these renamings. Some are also related terms for the given topic, like extended titles to names/countries, which might as well remain as redirects so that the full titles can be written and linked in other pages if relevant. As Lanate mentioned before, redirects are cheap. It's fine to have a lot of them as long as we don't have one for every possible misspelling of every word, since they are handled by MediaWiki behind the scenes. But don't go out of your way to bring them back just because I prefer to have them, since I didn't speak up at that time and my opinion isn't really vital anymore.
Shizune Hakamichi (talk) 04:06, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

What irks me is that I can't view all the wiki's redirects, as it limits the cache to the first alphabetical 1,000. Some I felt were unnecessary, and others I deleted because I felt the wiki had an overload of them. I was worried about hitting a limit, but after some research, I realized I was worrying about nothing. It's good to know they're cheap because they can be super useful. I'll review the deleted ones and restore some. I think your opinion is vital, which is why I wanted to hear it and will be taking it into consideration.

Arosia (talk) 04:48, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

Translations

Sorry if I've been doing stupid edits that are needing to be undone :P It's a very bad habit of mine somehow during my times of wikia editing >_>;;; Thing is, I've gotten a lot of my Japanese translations from tangorin a lot ever since around my high school years. Even if my translations are going to start a war, I've noticed a ton of them seem to be very inconsistent as some artes with the same kanji have been translated very differently. But to compromise as with Street Fighter Wiki, I've decided to leave those original translations by the FAQ untouched to credit the original translator while also having my revised translation alongside it. --SneaselSawashiro (talk) 01:13, June 20, 2015 (UTC)

Shrug. I've been using Kanjidic and Kotobank for over a decade. But I don't claim to be very proficient with the language, and some of your translations are good. Still, these minor differences that you are adding into the translations really don't do much to change the overall meanings in the translations that presently exist. It became redundant very quickly, and with minimal gain on the content of these pages. Besides, everyone has different opinions when it comes to how to translate certain words or phrases, and much of the English Tales community supports "localizing" the translations of Japanese text so that equivalent phrases are used to preserve the general concept and meaning, rather than literal word-for-word translations which sound mechanically awkward in English, or even that obnoxious mix of English embellished with key words in Japanese combined with annotations that TV-Nihon is known for. Namdai NA's actual current localization theory is to scrap the original meanings outright and completely change the dialogue and personalities of the characters in the games they bother to localize, not to mention how much they mistreat the English fanbase in the first place. All according to keikaku indeed.
In any case, if you think your version of the translations are significantly different enough to be worth pointing out in such an emphatic way, as redundant as it is given what already exists on these pages, then it's fine as long as Kyo's translations are still cited and unchanged where they exist. As long as no one adds obvious Google Translate dumps like previous users have done in the past, I don't actually care that much. My more recent revisions to what you had added actually relate to your use of mythological entities in the translations, which steps beyond what these arte names most likely represent aside from being cool words to attach to these fancy attack animations. While this is another type of translation liberty like those I mentioned, it is certainly not the intent of the game devs from the early games, although past localizations have inserted mythological entities into arte names where they never existed, like Cerberus Strike (which is still superior to Triple Kick done with hands).
Shizune Hakamichi (talk) 03:19, June 20, 2015 (UTC)

Character Designer

Sorry, Mayu, but I don't actually know anything about the character designers. Is there a cheatsheet I can refer to? Lanate (talk) 01:59, July 12, 2015 (UTC)

Charinfo Template

Hi! Thanks for merging/adding the tabber with the Charinfo templates. To be honest, that tabber was used only for the Tales of Xillia characters as an experiment because it's primarily used on Kamen Rider Wiki, where it's also implemented and used. Though another admin seems to have messed up the code for that and it was a shoddy copy and paste that never really was fixed by me on Aselia to see if using a tabber in the infobox would even be a viable option. >-<

But it seems like all the pages are broken right now and looks really strange. Hope that gets fixed soon. Ryousha (talk) 03:07, July 12, 2015 (UTC)

It was something that I was also trying to add in the past but never got it to work, so I appreciate that you were able to show that it is possible. But it's better to maintain a single template, so we decided to merge them together and convert certain other things accordingly. We are in the process of changing something unrelated on the templates now, as in literally this hour, so things will not render correctly until we finish our transition, which could still take a while.
Audrey Belrose is my spirit animal. (talk) 03:14, July 12, 2015 (UTC)
I can try to help out with the template and correct it so it doesnt show the [[File:(image):|imgsize]]
Ryousha (talk) 03:19, July 12, 2015 (UTC)
That's exactly what we are changing. The full details are on Template talk:CharInfo. It's better to just wait because we are already doing what needs to be done, and I'm spending more time replying to things than actually working on the transition so that it can be done quickly enough for people to not have to question it.
Audrey Belrose is my spirit animal. (talk) 03:23, July 12, 2015 (UTC)
We are already doing what needs to be done.
Audrey Belrose is my spirit animal. (talk) 03:28, July 12, 2015 (UTC)
Okay then. Seeing how I was originally working on the tabber system for the wiki, I would assume I could give you a hand. Good luck. Ryousha (talk) 03:31, July 12, 2015 (UTC)
Ah, so I can get back to work now. Cool beans.
Audrey Belrose is my spirit animal. (talk) 03:33, July 12, 2015 (UTC)

Tales of Innocence?

Since you've played and completed ToI, do you suggest it? I'm not sure how well you read or understand Japanese, so even if you do suggest it, is that in terms of plot/characters or simply gameplay? As you can see, I added a script to the Sources page, and it seems decent enough (no worse than the ToD and ToD2 scripts I use). I would like to give it a play and work on its articles in the same manner as I did with ToR. Thoughts?

Arosia (talk) 03:18, July 22, 2015 (UTC)

It's definitely a good game, if we're talking about the DS version. The Vita reimagination changes things for the worse, just like the other one, although there are some people who prefer the Triverse remake and complain nonstop about the DS version's difficulty spike at Kelm Volcano and the general need for grinding. After all, it's still an Alfa System game, and their forte is the RadiMai series and its MMO-esque style, which transfers into the guild quest and grade mechanics of Innocence.
But yes, this game is worth playing through, but that is primarily for the unique gameplay aspects, which the Triverse version actually dilutes or cuts out. The story is decent and actually brings Tales to a more modern setting close to WW1 era technology. YMMV, but I didn't appreciate the story as much as many of the console games, although it certainly isn't bad. It's just that there were a lot of missed opportunities for a story with a grander scale, and in the end it just becomes (spoilz)a massive backstabbing betrayalfest of lol. And yes, I do understand enough Japanese to understand the story and dialogue, but it's been so long since I no longer work with Baka-Tsuki or Eidenyaku or other translation groups. I never actually looked at the translations that others use for this game, but I should point out that there is a fully complete translation patch by Throughhim on his Absolute Zero website. (The same goes for TotT, but no, I do not recommend that game at all unless you lower your expectations by a LOT, or if you are genuinely interested in what makes the game so bad.) If you know how to extract the data from the DS cart and attach the patch into the game using homebrew techniques, then I can recommend doing so, but I wouldn't know how since I never needed anything like that. You can also use emulation, but I will only support doing so if you buy the actual game first. I know that many have had good experiences with Throughhim's patch, though as usual, I disagree strongly with many of the translation conventions that he uses.
In terms of gameplay, the DS version is very innovative in that TP costs are now wholly irrelevant due to how small the costs are and how huge the chars' HP/TP pools are from the start of the game. This means that combos are encouraged, although they are still bound by tiers, but this can be bypassed easily by switching between battle party members instantly with a single button press, something that Destiny PS2 only allows after beating the game and inheriting the relevant option. Combine this with clever use of Infinity Jam, and you can get three-digit combos at the beginning of the game if you can find enemies that will survive that long. The style system allows you to customize any char to be proficient with physical attacks, spellcasting, tanking (which is normally not useful in a Tales game), or speed. And unlike Abyss, you actually have to choose your skills and evaluate which ones are best for the role you give to a character. The only annoyance is that you have to actively pick up item and gald drops during/after battle, or else you don't get any of it.
For the Vita version, all of that... nope.avi. Granted, I am biased to support the DS version since I was part of the Innocence hype train in 2007. I preordered the game before I even owned a DS. I even received the Voice Adventure omake, but like everything else, that was left behind when I crossed the ocean. It was great to finally be able to play it, but like many others, my experience was soured by Vesperia's existence, which proved that all of the "Tales DS Forever!" claims were an outright lie, exposed one week -before- the first "Mothership" game actually entered the DS console.
Audrey Belrose is my spirit animal. (talk) 06:49, July 22, 2015 (UTC)

Yay! And yes, I am definitely talking about the DS version. I would love to use the translation patch, but unfortunately, I don't have that sort of know-how. I don't mind using a script, however, seeing as I've done it for three games now. I generally prefer home consoles over handheld ones because I get headaches easily while focusing on something in my hands, but I've watched some gameplay videos and pretty much determined that the game is decent enough to warrant a playthrough. Thanks for all the information!

Arosia (talk) 23:53, July 22, 2015 (UTC)

Also, does this new Recent Changes layout bother you? I don't like it at all.

Arosia (talk) 01:29, July 23, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry to spam, but these are examples of how the ToP game template appears with the new Wikia skin on an XL-screen desktop. The template extends midway through the "Story" section.

Arosia (talk) 01:51, July 23, 2015 (UTC)

...what, really? Okay, I'll remove the embedded tables. I really don't get how it would appear visible despite having zero border width and spacing, but I'll leave these templates with the awkward emsp/ensp things so we can avoid the rendering problems that you noticed.
Audrey Belrose is my spirit animal. (talk) 09:31, July 23, 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing it out before it was applied to all of the pages.
I also notice that you decided to also grab Tales of Hearts. Excellent choice, by far the better of the two main series DS games even though I never completed it myself. That was around the time I had to stop playing video games in general due to various things irl. But Hearts is very much worthwhile if you won't mind the fairy tale style storytelling. There are also cheesy romance elements, but you survived Destiny 2 so it shouldn't be an issue lol. People like to describe the battle system as a portable Destiny PS2, but this was the point in the series where I started to protest against the combo spamming that this game encourages. Destiny PS2 treated CC as a combo limiter in the same way SP works in Destiny 2. The Emotional Gauge mechanics of Hearts were advertised to be similar to the Rush Gauge from Rebirth, but in actuality, it can be ignored very easily for Seieirenpa spam in every battle because EG can be manipulated way too easily. Also, this game is unique in that you should put your preferred healer outside of the party in order to activate healing spells outside of the flow of battle while the battle party is fighting. (Hisui for second-best man-nurse in the series! First is unkillable tanky build Keele. :3c ) You'll see what I mean when you get used to the Connect Command panel.
Just as a word of warning: you may want to focus on increasing your stats before anything else. You likely won't be using many artes or passives that are gained exclusively from the other Soma Build branches, and the materials needed to raise your rank are shared among everything that can be purchased at that rank. Unless you would prefer to get those unique artes and passives from the other branches, the stats are often more valuable since you won't have any other way to increase them. Granted, you can still survive with lesser stats and more attack/movement options, but you should make your own judgment calls on that. I realize that our Soma Build pages were never properly worked on, and that was one of my long-abandoned projects due to the difficulties of simply getting tabs to work at all, back when the game was released. But there is a guide on GFaqs that you can refer to when making Soma Build branch choices.
As before, all of this only applies for the DS version. The Vita remake scraps everything unique about the game and even changes the movelists of every character to follow the generic formula of older games. This was bad enough even without the new chars who reek of bad fanfiction 'oc donut steel' self-inserts, with the game adjusting to fit them in rather than the other way around! And then the localization turned the awful up to eleven, which is an accomplishment in itself.
Audrey Belrose is my spirit animal. (talk) 10:43, July 23, 2015 (UTC)

No problem. I just didn't know if you were aware of how it looked with the Wikia skin, or if it was intended or not because I compared it with MonoBook and noticed it immediately. And yeah, I figured I may as well grab ToH. I watched a lot of videos, and since it was just as affordable, I felt drawn to trying it out. I also managed to find that script, which will at least help me understand what's going on. I know what you mean about ToD2, and I honestly have a love-hate relationship with that game. I was compelled by the story and its carryover from ToD, but the battle system and excessive random encounters made it tedious at times—not to mention, holy shit, they made some of those boss battles difficult. I felt relieved when I managed to beat Fortuna. I ended up keeping the game, if that tells you anything, because I won't keep a game unless I like it.

I dropped ToL around midway through the game because I couldn't deal with the sluggish battle system, random encounters, lack of settlements, and cringe-worthy voice acting. I enjoyed the plot and characters, but it became difficult for me to comprehend how such a game came after its previous marvels. I sold it lol. I also really liked ToV, but I didn't like owning an Xbox 360 solely to play it, so I ended up selling both of those as well. I had my fill of it, so it didn't bother me. Plus, I'm generally not attracted to a lot of modern games, particularly those in this series, and have always favored the predecessors—ToD:DC, ToD2, ToS, ToR, and TotA being my favorites thus far. TotA is my overall favorite for the plot, characters, and battle system, but ToD:DC and ToS have extremely favorable battle systems as well. ToD2 and ToR, not so much in my opinion, but they compensate with enjoyable stories and characters. Also, I owned the GBA version of ToP quite a while back, but got rid of it after completing it, for obvious reasons.

Anyway, enough of my rambling lol. Thanks for all the advice because I'm really looking forward to playing both of them. Ange seems to be my favorite from ToI (from what I've researched and seen with arte exhibition videos), so we have something in common!

Arosia (talk) 19:32, July 23, 2015 (UTC)

I have almost zero interest in the games released after Graces, but that is more because of my annoyance with Namdai JP's spam of new Tales games every year. I complained at length about the Tales Cycle on the TSF all the time. Besides, I don't intend to get any of those consoles even if I would love to play games like Eternal Sonata or Nier. I also hate the X-bone by principle. I do plan to buy the Tales games that will be released via Steam, but I doubt I would actually download or play them since I have a decently large backloggery of PC games that I have far more interest in, mostly titles by Western developers because I am a WRPG/D&D gamer at heart.
Audrey Belrose is my spirit animal. (talk) 23:41, July 23, 2015 (UTC)

Re: Sandbox abuse

In my opinion the issue here is the size of the Wiki and their contributors compared to the series size: it's just that there are a lot of things in the series that you try to minimalize any work with it due to simply the work being overwhelming. Trust me, I understand it's quite "eye-straining" to see lots of articles with little information in them, but cutting down the work by just dumping some things out and quite literally squeezing information is not a good practice (at least in my opinion). I'm not active on many Wikis (including this one I'm active on three) but you are very restrictive when it comes to article creation and I haven't seen so restrictive staff on that very few Wikis like it is on this one. Out of frustration, I can suggest that you limit even more the capabilities the users can have on this Wiki, like ban them from creating articles, or restrict that an article to be published it has to have at some 4-5 thousand characters (I think that might be doable but that would require contacting with Central Wikia). I'll be blunt: I don't like how you (and I mean the group) act just to make this Wiki "perfect-from-day-one" (meaning that the article posted on Wiki must already be a book-sized essay explaining every single thing about the article in question or it won't be accepted). This is not a good attitude, it drives potential contributors away, unless you want it that way, then fine, let it be your way. And if it bugs you so much, I can work on the potential articles on some other Wiki in my userspace. Also, that comment was "want to add something, feel free, I'll update it anyway", but you seem to take any attempt at helping the Wiki from my side as some kind of transgression. I honestly don't know how I feel about this Wiki anymore. OTL

Also, not sure if you plan it, but are you considering requesting the Central Wikia staff to create redirect to this Wiki from Tales of Wiki? I know it bugged the Aselia staff some time ago, so it might be a good idea to do so.—Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) ∙ 18:05, August 3, 2015 (UTC)

I think you are looking at this from the wrong angle. It's great and all that you want to contribute. With all honesty, I would have ignored that Ni Akeria page if it was posted on the main namespace. At least it is for a game that already exists. I honestly don't care about what you write because I don't do any grammar communism checks anymore. All I care about is the fact that you are putting oh so much effort into things that do not exist, like games that do not exist, or characters who do not exist. This effort goes toward the creation of pages composed of absolutely nothing. You are only padding the pages with meaningless tripe, as if every new bit of revealed info will be important even though the game itself will not come into being after another year. It is only at this point when there is actually enough information to write about and when page creation is justified. And you would rather do this than help to fix the multitude of existing pages which lack content but cover things that actually -do- exist, since the 1990s!
It's just this blatant disrespect of existing policies that triggers my animosity. You are literally trying to sidestep the correct process by creating a page within a perceived "safe zone" where you act as if you are hidden from the rules. These limitations are not in place to minimize our own work. Well okay, they are, at least partially. But the main purpose of these rules is to ensure quality over quantity and bind users to be responsible for their own creations instead of relying on others to do the work for them. The very concept of stubs is an insult to intellectual property, and if you intend to flesh out the page on your own, why would you not do so from the start? It does not have to be published for you to work on it! Take your time if you need to! By creating incomplete articles or stubs, others have to be sidetracked into fixing and improving those pages for you when they could have worked on the things they actually wanted to do. And then the incremental edits and gradual contributions to incomplete articles only compound the number of editing checks that must be done to ensure that quality standards are being met.

Because if the problems are not fixed by the regulars, no one else would do it for them since they are already the last ones available who can monitor the person who prematurely created the page. And then the mistakes and quality failures would remain for years until someone on GFaqs or /vg/ or tumblreddit will point it out as an example of why wikis have such bad quality instead of actually fixing it. This is the reality of the Tales series, a niche series of games with too many releases because Namdai JP bleeds money just to make more of these games (and Namco Tales Studio was destroyed because of it), whereas its English community is mistreated and trolled nonstop by Namdai NA and its obnoxious representatives like a certain FilthieRich. You can't expect there to be many contributors when it's hard enough to stay as a fan of the series despite the abuses coming directly from the company that makes/localizes the games. It's nice for me to be not so burdened by this now, because someone else has stepped into my shoes and discovered why I act this way in the first place. (Sorry Arosia.)

Also, keep conversations constrained to a single page, to ensure readability and allow other users to comment as needed. Back-and-forth replies are irritating for the end users who try to follow the chain, or if they only read the content of one side of the reply chain, they only see one side of a given story. My standard is to keep posting replies wherever the conversation is located or moved without fixing the conversation flow to show the whole thing from beginning to end, so whether you actually see this or not, that's all on you.
Audrey Belrose is my spirit animal. (talk) 00:24, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

In all honesty, no one would have deleted the page. Mayu would have ignored it, like she said, and I would have cleaned it. Mayu is right about the focus of your recent efforts, however. We are not a news blog like some of our affiliates, and this is why I think we're going to make it a new rule that games must be localized before we begin creating pages for them. Otherwise, we become a news blog ourselves, and that's not the purpose of this wiki. We aren't here to update the public on these topics. There are plenty of sites dedicated to that, and they do it much better than we do. Look at the ToZ pages, which have already accumulated an impressive edit history because they were prematurely created and updated like blogs with some of the most minor, insignificant details. As of late, my focus has been attempting to fill in gaps for characters/terms in games that have long existed but never had pages. It was my goal to create every missing ToR page in full, and I did that. My next two projects include ToI and ToH articles, and I just received both games today. Hence why I've been active a lot on the wiki lately. I want to take some time to enjoy these games before I get back to work on the wiki. I also have several Japanese guides coming in the mail, and I eventually plan on scanning images from them and whatnot. But I'm getting sidetracked.

Essentially, the page creation for unlocalized topics needs to stop and is probably going to stop because I'm tired of keeping up with them and changing names and making things consistent and blahblahblah. As Mayu pointed out, this is an issue I recently addressed on another talk page because of this petty trend I saw with the recent few titles. They spam-referenced AC for frivolous things such as release dates, which, lo and behold, we wouldn't need to cite if we would just wait for the game to be released when it will be released, which is always subject to change. Just as, like Mayu said, names and terminology are always subject to change. I really, really, really don't mind users creating pages. Yes, I would prefer them to be complete, and they definitely need to at least consist of a few healthy paragraphs, but no one is going to delete them if they are informative and well-written topics for existing games. The odds of the pages being created otherwise is slim to none, so no, I really don't mind. Mayu's main gist is that we have plenty of existing pages that are in need of expansion, and there is plenty of content in this series that is not represented on this wiki. The priorities are definitely not unreleased games.

Anyway, I firmly believe that this wiki is used quite often by English fans of the series, but as far as editing goes, there's not much we can do for a series like this, in contrast to more popular series like Final Fantasy. The editing problem isn't exclusively ours, however. Many other wikis struggle with the same problem, or, in the case of larger wikis, you have a flurry of edits nearly all day. No, not all those contributors are experts on the series or skilled in writing, which is why you find absolute slop on some of their pages. Wikis with a vast amount of pages, in all likelihood, permit stub articles or simply overlook them. Final Fantasy Wiki has plenty. Many wikis don't even cite their images. Our wiki does, and our wiki has an organized infrastructure, as well as strict rules in regard to wiki editing, which has prevented us from becoming a grotesquely large, scattered, and unorganized wiki. Having a small amount of contributors is a blessing and a curse. It leaves more work for those who do contribute, but it makes my job a hell of a lot easier because I would go nuts if I had to monitor a large wiki. Also, mind you, we're a decent size considering the series' popularity.

Arosia (talk) 02:14, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, I'll keep in mind to not fracture the flow of discussion.
I'll admit it: the way you explain the need of refraining on the creation of new articles which creates more work to tend to rather than having a smaller number which is easier to maintain make me feel a bit bad for lashing out on you for which I apologize. Still, I am not really fond of how you work with the Wiki in certain areas, but well... different people handle the same thing differently. As for the games exclusively in Japanese or just announced: would it be be fine for articles to exist just for games? IMO they should be the Wiki's top priority, even if the game is only announced because I believe readers and/or contributors will be most interested with that article in the beginning (although arguably character articles could also come as top priority). With content like characters, locations, terms, artes (skills?), and such related to that game I can understand article creation prohibition for the time being.
Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) ∙ 16:20, August 4, 2015 (UTC)
Oh yeah, I forgot to comment on that. Games that are released only in Japan still deserve articles if we know enough about them to have a proper page. The rule should be that we don't need to create new pages for a game or its related topics until the game is properly released in Japan (either as a downloadable demo or a full retail game). After release, go wild with page creation if you have something that you can say about each topic to be worth a page of its own. With regard to localized releases, the terminology used in the pages should not change until the game is properly released in English-speaking countries (either as a demo or a full retail game). That has always been my rule for arte lists anyway; we would simply be extending it to cover all pages. Upcoming details like release dates or new ports/remakes/reimaginations could be added, but there were at least two games that required the published release date to be postponed by like two months, once because of the Touhoku earthquake. I don't remember which games those were.
Side note, when I was going through the game pages recently, I noticed that many of the cellphone games have such little info that I feel that they should all be merged onto one page for "Tales of Mobile", particularly the minigame-themed ones since there is not much to say about them. The full RPG cellphone games (Breaker/Commons/Wahrheit/Material Dungeon/Tactics/Tactics Union/Asteria/Link) should deserve unique articles, but we need to dig around for more info to justify these pages. I remember that one of my JP sources for Wahrheit arte lists also showed chapter names for each of the downloadable parts of the game. I think there were like 12 parts. But I never actually tried to read through it to see if there were any story descriptions there.
Audrey Belrose is my spirit animal. (talk) 23:09, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

I guess we should have clarified that. Elaborating on what Mayu said, pages for Japan-exclusive content are fine as long as they have been released in Japan and there is enough information to warrant a page creation. What we, or at least I, were getting at is that ToZ (not yet localized, meaning spam changes like we're a news blog, which we're not) and ToB (not released anywhere and prone to spam changes like we're a new blog, which we're not) are prime examples of rushed page creation that forces content in order to make it seem as if users are adding something to the wiki, when really, they're not. They're adding next to nothing, and certainly nothing that other websites more dedicated to this cause haven't already stated. The ToZ page, its character pages, and the ToB page were all created without enough knowledge of any of them. As such, they were prone to continuous "updates" disguised as contributions rather than being created when a person had enough knowledge of the content. But yeah, I wasn't meaning anything unlocalized can't have pages. In fact, I should have chosen my words more carefully, so I'll do that now.

  • There is always going to be Japan-exclusive content (think Escort/Mobile/Other titles, though not really Motherships anymore), so yes, we should strive to have (worthwhile) articles for those topics if they are released.
  • For unlocalized content that will, in all likelihood, be localized at some time or has already been announced to be localized, pages should still only be created if there is enough information to warrant said pages, hence no omgwownewgameonitswaygetreadyhasafemaleprotagonistomg-type stuff. I realize I defended the creation of the ToB page (in fear that others would follow suit), but I did say no to the Velvet page. I regret allowing ToB simply because it's going to become a little news blog page in and of itself. No release anywhere = no page.
  • Okay, so say that game has been released in Japan but hasn't yet been localized (ToZ). Cool, let's have a page. But wait. Let's make sure this page has a healthy amount of content written by someone who has played or researched the game. Let's definitely not create character pages unless we have "History" sections because, go look, that's a trend on all of them! There were created just for the sake of having pages for them, which violates our rules.
  • Finally, yes, new official rule that should have existed always in conjunction with our arte page rules. No localized names or terms unless the game has been localized. Trailers don't count.

I realize how my earlier comments could have been taken out of context, so there is your clarity.

Arosia (talk) 23:54, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

Translation

Okay, I know the locations that are labeled, but what is the region coloration indicating in this image? Also, what does it say above the original image?

Arosia (talk) 04:29, August 18, 2015 (UTC)

Oh, one more thing. I have been persistently confused as to whether Naohs is a country in and of itself, an independent city, or a city under the rule/territory of Regnum. Taken from the JP Wikipedia article for ToI:

聖都ナーオス

アンジュの育った国で、出身国ではない。かつて教会の権威が絶頂であったころに作られた町。現在は王都のお膝元にあり、緑が豊かでのんびりとした田舎であるが、近くにナーオス基地があるため、いつ戦争の被害を受けるのかと住民は不安でいる。かつての教会の権力の象徴でもあった大聖堂があるが、「無恵」からは教会の権力が落ちたため寂れていたらしい。現在でも教会の中心地となっており、教会付属の神学校もある。この町の異能者(転生者)はアンジュだけだったらしく、シスターであったアンジュが天術を使って人々の病を癒すようになってから「ナーオスの聖女」として瞬く間に広がり、彼女を拝みに来た巡礼者たちの奉納物は町の貴重な収入源となっていた。しかしアンジュが大聖堂を破壊した事件をきっかけに巡礼者は減り、聖職者たちも各地に散ってしまったらしい。

It's Ange's home country but not her country of origin? Located in Regnum?

Arosia (talk) 06:08, August 18, 2015 (UTC)

I know you would be expecting some translations from me with this reply, but I'd like to postpone this until the weekend. I have prior client-based obligations that have to be addressed as soon as asap.
Audrey Belrose is my spirit animal. (talk) 11:23, August 18, 2015 (UTC)

No worries. It's not an urgency or anything. My only concern is that I'm not disseminating any false information based on my understandings.

Arosia (talk) 19:13, August 18, 2015 (UTC)

Title Order

The title order I listed on the newly created artes I took from here. That article was done mainly because it became quite confusing on how to order the games. If you have any reservations on the order I suggest contacting Lanate and Arosia since they created the list in the first place.—Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) ∙ 12:39, August 23, 2015 (UTC)

Wait, this is a thing? The listing of arte appearances is meant to flow chronologically, only subdivided by mothership/escort/whatevs. The point is to show the progression of arte usage in the series. Any other order is nonsensical since, as you see from the pages you created, the Innocence demake represents a cameo appearance of a character who did not exist before the game she was created for. If the arte had appeared in the original Innocence, then yes it would follow standard order, but artes that are exclusive to ports, remakes, or triverse shenanigans should be sorted relative to their release in comparison to other games to avoid cameo appearances preempting their actual existence.
Shizune Hakamichi (talk) 13:12, August 23, 2015 (UTC)

Back when we were re-hauling arte pages, I left the responsibility of the layout to Lanate. Since then, I've gone based on that list. I'd wait to see what he says, but I do see the problem here. I just never thought twice about it before because arte pages. Also, Kaimi, in case you're wondering why Mayu deleted your ToZ paragraphs on those arte pages, all arte description is supposed to be included in that section's initial paragraph, with all subsequent paragraphs focusing on any other pertinent information about the arte that makes it unique to that game. I just didn't care enough to do anything about it before. I am glad to see arte pages being created again, however, because I feel that's one of the simpler tasks on this wiki if you know what you're doing with them. I'd like to see us begin making up for lost ground these past couple of years.

Arosia (talk) 19:55, August 23, 2015 (UTC)

My original issue was the sort of mess that happened when English and Japanese release dates happened out of order, mixed in with keeping a running list of release dates of ports/remakes, particularly the clusterfuck of Phantasia... In retrospect, I can see it being an issue. Should game of origin trump remakes then in order of listing? Lanate (talk) 03:15, August 25, 2015 (UTC)
I feel that there are less problems when we consider only the Japanese release order, separating every portmake and ordering it relative to the other entries on the same list whenever a difference occurs. Naturally, we would not see artes like Bakuenken and Kappa Bakusougeki and the other Destiny 2 arte references in the original release of its prequel, given that the remake came out after Abyss (and also owes Abyss for Resshintenshou and Sougazan), so it makes no sense to represent them as if they existed before the sequel was first released. That also applies to Akisazame, which first appeared in Phantasia SFC but skipped over the original Destiny and was later inserted into the remake courtesy of King Woodrow's Future Beard. Likewise, the artes that were inserted into Destiny 2 PSP through the new cameo battles should not be represented as if they had been there in the original release but instead occurred after Destiny PS2 became a thing.
Of course, now that you brought it up, the listing of localized names does become an issue when we consider how DotNW and Vesperia were localized in reverse order compared to JP Vesperia and Ratatosk no Kishi because of the pseudo-worldwide release of Vesperia X360, and Phantasia everything. But I've always been biased toward supporting the JP side of things so I would still order everything by JP release. It's not a big deal to keep a running list of every Tales port and such, with dates being unnecessary as long as it is already on their respective articles. As I said, the arte appearances list was meant to show the historical progression of artes and their localizations (when applicable) as the series rolls onward along the Tales Cycle. Admittedly, this would be shown more clearly if the escortship blahblah)ry were merged, but I realize that this is not feasible so I won't push for things to go that far.
Shizune Hakamichi (talk) 11:48, August 25, 2015 (UTC)
I'm actually remembering why I wanted to switch over the current version, but that's just me bitching at how annoying ordering it by release date is. I personally don't like how it looks visually, given the port/remakes locations now look scattershot even if it is by release date order. User:Lanate/Release Date Order has all of the Mothership and Escort titles ordered by release date. Lanate (talk) 03:25, August 28, 2015 (UTC)

I'm going to have to agree with Lanate's mentality here. I find it more difficult and confusing to order them by release date, and often, it results in the "scattershot" effect Lanate describes. Also, consider that Lanate and I have already structured every arte page this way, back when we were doing the massive re-haul of arte page layout. It would be extremely laborious to revert or change everything at this point.

Arosia (talk) 03:48, August 28, 2015 (UTC)

mmk.
Shizune Hakamichi (talk) 12:11, August 28, 2015 (UTC)

Translation.

Arosia (talk) 18:06, August 28, 2015 (UTC)

^ Oh, and ignore that. I was just joking because I wasn't sure how to interpret your response. I know arte pages were originally your project, so I don't know how you feel about us changing anything regarding them.

Arosia (talk) 00:10, August 30, 2015 (UTC)

Icon column

The images should be in their own column, consistent with other icon-using pages.

I only provided the achivements page with an icon column. For tools, food, and recipes, I simply inserted the images underneath the names so that I wouldn't stretch the tables any further. Also, if either you or Lanate have any free time this weekend, this process is very tedious. I'm willing to upload everything, but some help with inserting into the tables would be nice.

Arosia (talk) 00:12, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Every list-type page has width problems under the default skin. The food and tools pages can have their width problems mitigated by constraining the misc info column to whatever looks most visually appealing, since their current widths extend indefinitely and create too much horizontal whitespace. The weapon pages are where the limited width is a problem, but still the icons should be separated from the names since they now introduce too much vertical whitespace, most noticeable on the entries that have no nested rows. And besides, the ToEO arte lists have shown the icons this way since forever. It's not like any of these pages have as much info as the costumes list for the original NariDan, which was significant enough to separate everything into two tables on one page.
Btw I can make the necessary changes later.
Shizune Hakamichi (talk) 00:55, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Okay. I think I have everything uploaded now. I'm going to continue as I was because I have difficulty creating the icon column. I'm hoping my doing so will make it easier for you or Lanate to fix the pages because the image will already be inserted, leaving (I'm assuming) nothing but a series of copy/paste maneuvers.

Arosia (talk) 01:39, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

ToS Monster List - Hammer Knuckle

I've been using this wiki to help me 100% the Monster List in Tales of Symphonia PS3. According to the Monster List page, monster #78 Hammer Knuckle is found in the Temple of Earth. According to other sites and my old copy of the guide for the Game Cube version, it's actually in the Tower of Salvation. I thought I would bring this to someone's attention in the event of future confusion and possible other errors.

Kasaix (talk) 08:34, December 26, 2015 (UTC)

I'll fix it. For future reference though, you're free to fix it yourself and simply state your reasoning for the change in the edit summary box. Also, Mayu is no longer an admin or even an active user.

Arosia (talk) 18:23, December 26, 2015 (UTC)

Hey

If you still check the wiki, could you please reply to this? Thanks.

Arosia (talk) 18:46, May 28, 2016 (UTC)

Departure

Not sure if you still lurk around here or not, but I will say that I really enjoyed working with you during your time here, mainly during my early days when I was still learning the ropes. Hope all is well for you.

Arosia (talk) 23:06, April 5, 2018 (UTC)

What's going on here...?

I'm...unbanned...? Wait....what the hell is going on here...? This really strikes me as odd after around 3 years. --SneaselSawashiro (talk) 04:07, May 21, 2019 (UTC)

Not sure why you are asking me, since I was not involved in whatever it was that got you banned. I mean, I can still read the edit history of your talk page which got cleared at some point (which is why I always discouraged and actively reverted any deletion of talk page comments, precisely to avoid uncertainties like this), but I don't care enough to confirm the context and sequence of events. Besides, this apparently took place in 2017, and I've stopped my direct involvement with the Aselia wiki in 2015, or possibly 2014 if my dwindling time and motivation to contribute to the wiki is to be counted. I will say that a "permaban" is technically limited by the MediaWiki/Wikia system to a maximum of one year, with the intention that the ban will be renewed if the wiki admin happens to be reminded of it. This is most relevant in the case of recurring page vandalism. If you got unbanned, it was just an automatic process caused by this obnoxious system limitation. Depending on the current adminship, rather than instant renewal, the ban will likely be renewed only if you continue whatever it was that caused the ban. But I don't mean to stop the other admin that banned you to pop in and appeal for enforcing the "permanent" nature of the ban. My own opinion falls squarely within the category of "idgaf". Cheers.
Double-Hitting Mamako~ (talk) 04:49, May 21, 2019 (UTC)
My bad. I requested to Lanate years ago that my info on my page be removed due to me not wanting to have anything to do with this wikia anymore (and I was banned from even being able to make changes to my own page in the first place). Your message was still left there on my archives so I thought you were the best person to talk to regarding this. I'll leave you alone for the time being. My apologies. --SneaselSawashiro (talk) 22:09, May 22, 2019 (UTC)

Akisazame cancelling

With regards to Reid's Akisazame cancelling, I just booted up my old save to confirm, with just 302 uses I was able do 3 basic attacks > Akisazame > arcane artes. I don't know where you got that it was bugged but I've always known it to work and there are no sources in Japanese that I can find saying it's bugged.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kusanagiryuu (talk).

The emphasis here is on the final upward thrust, whether this particular strike and animation can be cancelled or not. There is no issue with chaining from the arte as a whole, after the thrust, since that is how all artes work. However, there is a specific arte use condition that enables this part of the attack to be eliminated when attempting to chain from it. According to Kajitani-Eizan, the guy who produced translation patches for Narikiri Dungeon 2 and 3, he decompiled the game code for the PSX version of Tales of Eternia and discovered that it requires 1200 uses of Akisazame to cancel out this one final thrust when chaining into an arcane arte. He posited that it must be a typo and should have been a mere 120 uses by intention, but the actual result for the end user is the inability to chain -while- cancelling this thrust until 1200 uses has been achieved by the player during that one playthrough. He detailed his findings on the now-defunct official Tales Series Forums, but that site was shut down several years ago so you will just have to believe me in saying that it was a moderately well disseminated topic. But you are right that it is hard to find any JP sources with this same info, which is why I refrained from reverting your edit to that page again.
Double-Hitting Mamako~ (talk) 07:28, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Message wall spam posted by NDS123

Blood Sin translation

Kanata calls Patricidal Edge "Blaze Oedipus" (ブレイズオイディプス). But they also call it "Parent-killing sword" (親殺しの剣). How do I put both in?

https://crestoria-en.tales-ch.jp/character/index.php

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by NDS123 (talk).

This link. https://crestoria.tales-ch.jp/character/index.php?tab=1
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by NDS123 (talk).

Hey, what does this mean?

"不貫の邪恋"

I feel like "Unsuccessful evil love" doesn't count.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by NDS123 (talk).

How do you translate this?

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/ade6781e-c543-4ae5-a97a-6e9f9e5c6e73

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by NDS123 (talk).

This is the best I can come up with...
'''Japanese Quote:''' "罪に飲まれるか、罪を喰らうか………!(either "機" or "汚") れた{{ruby|運命|さだめ}}で答えを刻め!"
'''Romanized Quote:''' "Tsumi ni noma reru ka, tsumi o kurau ka………! Kegareta sadame de kotae o kizame!"
'''Localized Quote:''' "You wanna own your sin, or you wanna let it own you? Carve the answer outta your own fouled soul!"
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by NDS123 (talk).

Input request

Lanate has come up with a new idea for the returning characters in Tales of Crestoria. It's on my talk page. —NDS123 (talk) 11:46, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

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