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Concerning arte name links and related formatting

(I'm not exactly used to greeting people, but the last person I commented to made a big deal out of it, so I'll leave it at that with the "welcome" template. =P )

I notice that you edited Richter's artes list page so most of his attacks (the ones without known localized names) have had their links removed. While this would make sense normally since Richter uses attacks that are exclusive to himself (and therefore all of them have no articles written yet), I would prefer to maintain the links for the sake of consistency with other similar pages.

I also noticed that Emil's artes page was edited in the same way yesterday, so I should use that as an example of what I have in mind. Right now, the listed artes on his page show a mix of Japanese and English versions. I wish to have only the confirmed localized names displayed, and all others displayed as their Japanese romanizations if they are not confirmed, everything with links to their associated articles (even though quite a handful of them don't exist yet). With all honesty, this is not what I intended at the beginning, since another editor added these confirmed names as the links - instead, I had planned to have even the confirmed names listed below all other arte name translation info, like I did with Vesperia's data before the localized release, since the articles are tagged to emphasize that this game has not been released in English yet, so all data should follow the Japanese release and linked accordingly.

Either way, it's better to keep the links, since I make it a point to provide redirects for the Japanese arte names so the correct English pages are referenced. If we remove the links, this kind of referencing is lost, and in games that have not received any translations whatsoever such as Tales of Innocence, their associated artes lists would not have a way to provide details like comparisons to other games, ie. Spada's Senkuureppa, which does have an article for the attack. Removing the link removes the article from view, and changing the name to "Light Spear" makes no sense since Innocence will never be localized (though there is a fan-made English patch in progress; the Innocence artes lists will make note of the names that are used once the patch is released).

Whatever the case, the links should be kept. Although I prefer to maintain Japanese arte names only until the English localization is released, I don't really have a problem with replacing some of them with the current confirmed names, as long as everything remains linked. After all, the localization has already shown to have some discrepancies with past current localized names - "Focus" is apparently changed to "Fiend Fusion", which makes no sense no matter how I look at it but whatever.

Sorry for the rambling, and welcome to the Tales Wiki.

Mayu Miyuki 20:23, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Redirect links

You do not need to go through every article to edit the links to point them to the English-named articles. That is what redirect pages are for. It is easier to keep all attack names consistent with their source, maintaining Japanese names for the games that are not released in English, or keeping the localized names for any given game even though there are more recent localized terms. This is important, since if, for instance, "Sonic Spear" is to be renamed in some future localized game, and since Ricardo's "Shunjinsou" has been relinked to point to "Sonic Spear", the release of a new localized name for this attack would require you to go through this page and every other page for each character that uses this attack (Jade and Eugene), and relink them to the new name. This is more effort than it's worth, though it can be done just as easily by changing the article for "Sonic Spear" into a redirect page itself, pointing to the new article. But where is the consistency in that? Why use redirect pages if you are going out of your way to avoid them?

There are many more pages that you have not edited, that you would need to fix if you wish to maintain consistency with what you are trying to do. Whenever you get around to editing ToE - Farah Oersted: Artes, you would have to go through every attack name that has a new localized name and point every link to their current names, and when newer names are made, you would have to re-edit these pages again. When Tales of Symphonia was released (supposing this page, or even this wiki, existed back then), "Triple Blossom" would have had to be relinked manually to "Triple Kick". When Tales of Vesperia was released, we got "Cerberus Strike", and "Triple Blossom" would have required another relink to the new name. We would have to edit the pages anyway since I chose to display all the current localized names in parentheses below the Japanese romanizations for every attack, so your edits can be done at the same time during future edits, but it's not necessary to do this if redirect pages can achieve the same effect with less effort.

So I will insist that it is easier to leave everything alone and use redirect pages instead. If a redirect page does not currently exist for a given Japanese or former English attack name, please create one. Honestly, I have no problem with leaving the changes you made, but you might want to consider changing them back to their original format. If you really want to keep your changes, go ahead as long as you are willing to maintain consistency with all other similar pages. Even for past localized arte names. Have fun, and make sure you stay active long-term to make it happen, too... =P

As for the spell "Tempest" in TotT - Arria Ekberg: Artes, please keep it linked as "Tempest (spell)". The page "Tempest" is a redirect to "Tempest Strike", the melee swordsman's aerial vertical spin attack. This was a decision of mine, which I never explained elsewhere, since people are so familiar with the name "Tempest" referring to this attack, that it should be used to point to the current name used in RadiMai (<-- I want to make this one a redirect link too, believe me... but only Japanese speakers use this shortened name). The article for the unrelated spell "Tempest" is differentiated by the "(spell)" appended to the page name. I know the page doesn't exist yet, but the link should be kept as a placeholder, much like my previous concern about you removing the placeholder Japanese arte name links from my previous comment. In any case, this also helps with redirects for the artes lists that involve characters that have "Tempest Strike" localized at the time as "Tempest". Unless you want to change these links too, per your most recent edits.

Also, I apologize for adding my previous comment to your user page instead of your talk page. I am moving those comments to the correct page now, so please excuse this mistake.

Mayu Miyuki 20:10, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

edited 20:18, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

ToS

Hey me again. I think since most of the articles on ToS and ToS2 are lacking story and plot. I think the ToS and ToS2 article need more than the dried up plot description I think we need to add the whole story line it would make the aritcles look bigger and better. Same for the character articles as you saw the example on Lloyd's page in the ToS2 section I explained the whole story of Lloyd in that game (no matter how much bad grammer was in it), but I think we should right the story for both the first and second games for all the ToS characters, and also we need to add plot into Emil and Marta's articles because let's face it the kinda look crappy without that much information on their story. So are you up to this?--Ratatosk/Zolo 21:00, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

By that, do you mean tht they lack the story for the whole game in the description? I agree that some characters, like Lloyd, don't tell the whole story, like characters like Annie and Eugene do. We can easily fix that. I saw that Lloyd's whole story from DotNW was written, so I just edited a little and placed some of the images other fitting places. But when it comes to the original ToS-story for Lloyd, you're right that it is lacking, unlike with Colette and some others.
So, I do agree that in the ToS and DotNW-articles, the plots/story may be revealed (which spoilers-warnings), but the short descriptions of the characters should remain, as there probably are reasons they have their own articles. But we can put their story in their own character article, that's right. Most of the characters need more description for the DotNW-section, anyway.
I can't provide much for the DotNW-parts, though, as the preorder for Europe/PAL region has been delayed to February, but I'll do as much as I can for the ToS-parts. Neither can we forget Alice, Decus and all the other new characters. Their descriptions are pretty loosy, as well.
I'll try to put in as much information as possible, but together with the last mock exam, I have to make the articles for some locations in ToS, as well as make the arte lists for TotW:RM. I'll try to work hard, though.
Penamesolen 00:01, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

The Templates

Good job, the stub template is super awesome! :D Dhoas is good for our deletion template, now let's hope FFwiki does spike my ass for copying their templates.--Lady Pumpkin 10:48, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks :) I thought that yours were really original and cool, so I thought that we maybe should try to make as many as possible of our templates like that, as long as we find pictures of the character saying the things.
But, um. what do you mean by copying? *doesn't visit many other wikis* Penamesolen 23:13, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I mean I copied the FFwiki templates and KHwiki templates.[1] Look.--Lady Pumpkin 02:33, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Character article page titles

I think it would be best to leave the article names as the character names without titles. Redirects with the character+title full names are fine, but the main articles should be like "Pronyma", "Kvar", etc., like how they would appear when you use a Magic Lens on them during battle. The same goes for "Sync", "Dist", and so on.

Their titles should be stated within the article text, like at the beginning of the first paragraph. The Japanese versions of those titles could also be noted, ie. "Legretta the Quick" vs. "Regret the Magic Bullet". The article names should just stick with the English localized name of course ("Legretta"). Besides, some of them have all sorts of titles ("Major Legretta", whatever her title was in that one book in the Daath library), so we really can't stick with one title.

And again, the Magic Lens knows all~ (lol "Traitor to Heaven"... but that goes with Kratos anyway.)

Mayu Miyuki 18:17, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I see. Thank you for telling me, and I'm sorry for the trouble I gave. I'll go and edit them back to how they were ^^.
Penamesolen 19:06, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the help

Thanks for helping on kohaks and shing's page, let's keep up the good work :D!

You're welcome. And I agree, we must continue working. Just try to double-check your work and so on before saving pages, okay? By the way, you can get your signature if you put on ~~~~. Then your user name etc. will appear authomatically.
By the way, what Tales of games do you play/have played?
Penamesolen 19:14, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, I have played Tales of Phantasia (SNES), Tales of Symphonia DotNW, TotA, Tales of Innocence, and Tales of Hearts. Planning onGetting symphonia, and if god let's me get a XBOX 360, vesperia, maybe.

Btw I uploaded some pics of Kohak in battle and her cut-in, I sukc at making galleries, would you mind putting them on kohak's page?

GenoWhirl24
I see. I'm waiting for DotNW now, but it's unknown if it will come out in Europe or not. I hope it will; stupid Nintendo of Europe never gives us the good stuff :(
I can do that. It would suit better if she had a section telling about her fighting style for those pictures, though. Since you have played the game, can you make one? If you need guides on how to make a section like that, just go to a ToS-character's article, and then you go down to "Fighting style". There you can see how they are made.
Penamesolen 19:30, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't main Kohak to be quite honest, But I will try to.

GenoWhirl24 19:33, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

You don't need to use her all the time. If you manage to add the things below, I think you will be okay.
  • Tell what her weapon is, and how she uses it. If you want, come with examples of artes she uses.
  • Does she have any main element? If so, tell.
  • Does she have any combination between combat artes and magic?
  • If there is a point in the game where her fighting style changes, or where she begins to use magic/combat, tell.
  • Does her fighting style in battle changes drastically throughout the game? Like, if she goes from weak spells to strong and powerful ones?
  • What is her strongest weapon, plot and/or side-quest weapon (if there are any of the two last ones)? In ToS, the mentioned weapons were the strongest weapon, the Devil's Arm (a weapon you can get through a long side-quest; one for each party member), the gag weapon (a weapon you can buy in the fully restored Luin; one for each party member) and eventual plot weapon (weapon that has a big role in the plot).
  • If she has any "Ultimate Equipment", maybe you can add this, but this has just been written on Raine's article, so you don't have to have this one.
I think you'll be fine if some of these are mentioned. Thank you for doing this. Aselia really appreciate it.
Penamesolen 19:54, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for editing kohak's pics, Told ya I sucked at galleries XP.

GenoWhirl24

Addressing people

Please see the talk topic Addressing people on my talk page. Lanate (talk) 19:00, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Hey!

I'm slowly working on the locations you asked, all right!!--Link5 X 22:17, 11 February 2009 (UTC)Link5_X

That's good! Thank you for helping! I've finnished with Palmacosta and such, so now I'm working on Palmacosta Human Ranch. If you see something that could be changed in Palmacosta's DotNW-section, or any of the other locations' DotNW-sections, please do!
Penamesolen 15:54, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Arte page formats

I didn't complain because I don't care. It's not as if I enjoy repeating myself when I say that I consider all those individual arte pages to be a dead project that's not worth the effort, and that there are other more important things to work on. I would have preferred to use a very different layout than what you decided to go with, but I don't have the time or interest to make my ideas possible, again since these pages really should be ignored. And what with the release of the Touhou UFO (TH12) demo just yesterday at Reitaisai, I'm spending more time over where my fellow Touhoufags lurk, trying to understand how in the world ZUN was drunk enough to even consider having huge BROFIST/MANFIST comets as danmaku during the Stage 3 spell cards.

I should probably shut up now or I'll start spamming about a series most of you will likely never understand beyond stealing precious things and such.

Mayu Miyuki 03:17, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry that I most likely are annoying people with it, but I really think the individual pages need a little more attention. I'll probably not give them that, but I just thought that this layout was saving a lot of space and such.
And about the layout, if you find out what would suit better, please use it. Now that I'm using a little newer computer, I see that the layouts I've made can be longer (but on my own older computer, it says that it is already on its limits). I was wondering if I should just drop the "In-Game Description", since that is already told in the Arte Description and History-section, but I wasn't sure.
Don't worry, I have no clue what you mean with that game ^^.
Penamesolen 08:32, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Eh, No one fills in the in game description anyways, it really is like a waste of space =/, but I'd rather suggest we decide on a format before starting to edit.

--GenoWhirl24 14:46, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

On the subject of the arte pages. I notice on a lot of the artes artciles such as Demon Fang we added these box templates that sorta(no offense) make the wiki look extremley boring now. Whether or not this is awesome to you guys I sorta just don't like it, but it's a okay. But on the main subject about the spell artes I was wondering instead of doing what we did on the First Aid and Barrier pages we could do what FFwiki, KHwiki, etc on RPG wikis do to thier spell pages. My example of FF-> [2]. I would look a bit more fun and excellent room for images. So what you guys say.--71.95.215.2 15:16, 11 March 2009 (UTC) a.k.a Zolo.

While I agree they looks kinda monotonous, it looks kinda more organized, on the spell note,I say we stick with FF format, that's basically what we were supposed to do in the first place, add info of the spell in each game :p, But I'm to busy working on hisui's somabuild to care right now >.>, I'll help later --GenoWhirl24 15:21, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

The format for the FF page is just... ugh. If you're going to describe a spell and it's evolution throughout the series, don't make separate sections for each game. Add them together into one "description and history" section and compare them directly to each other. Again, I have a specific format in mind, and I do not like the format that Penamesolen decided to implement, but in order for me to remove it, I would have to come up with a better format of my own, something that I do not want to do because it's not worth the effort.
In other words, I don't like the FF format. I don't like the current format. I don't even like the format I created the pages with. So again, I'd like everyone to leave the damn pages alone and focus on something slightly more relevant like our dozens of missing pages as detailed on the List of character-specific information page.
Actually on second thought, I think Lanate's reformatting of the individual summon/craymel spirit pages is a decent middle ground between combining all descriptions together in a group comparison (preferred) and Zolo's hack-and-slash separation of all the games into release order. Still there is a lot to be desired, and I don't really desire much to do with these pages anymore. If anyone decides to edit those pages to follow whatever format they want, I'm not going to stop them - it's not my job to hand-walk others through making pages.
Mayu Miyuki 18:13, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm really, really sorry to sound stupid now, but I can't help feeling lost when I read what you've said. Okay, so we're not supposed to work on the individual pages until a format/layout is decided (which, as you said, probably never will, since you seem eager not to), and instead we're going to work on the character-specific information, like the missing lists for the unlocalized games. Those who DON'T buy unlocalized games or DON'T understand Japanese enough to sort things out or DON'T care about spending time making the lists? Nto everyone is like you guys and go all over the Internet to find information for the lists. Some may want to take it a little more easier and individual, thus the arte pages and such fit them better. I'm fine, I'll just work on the ToS locations-project, but some people maybe find it fun or okay to work on the more individual pages.
So, I'm sorry for this request, but I agree with you; if you have any better ideas, or think mine is so wrong (yet better than the old?), then why can't you just demonstrate your own? Think about those who WANT to fix all the artes, but can't because they're waiting for the one you (and everyone) say should be better. It would be nice if you didn't say "no this isn't good, and I have a better one but don't want to show it" and instead just showed us it. Going around with that attitude won't always help.
And it's strange that you tell us to leave the pages alone, yet say at the end that you don't care even though you have a "better and more specific layout in mind". Which one do you mean? Or am my English horribly leaving me now, and I've misunderstood everything that have been said?
Penamesolen 19:04, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
Mmh, I guess I do sound like a hypocrite, don't I. But this is why I never commented in the first place - do what you want, and I won't bother you if I don't care. You seemed to be begging for someone to complain, so I merely obliged. But let me repeat - you can keep making your changes, and so can anyone else, because those pages are dead. I can hate the changes with all my passion (and I don't hate the changes... much), but it's your changes so you should go for it if you think it will really make a difference.
Now why don't I demonstrate my own plans? Because I have more important things to do. Is it such blasphemy to say so? I don't really care for the Tales series right now since there are other things going on in other spheres of the internets, and the Tales series seems to be in its first "quiet" period in over three years! (And thank god for that!) Now barring myself from potential ranting that would only end up with me worsening my future carpal tunnel problems, I'll provide my thoughts with a touch more neutrality.
Your format might be clearer than the original system, but I have to agree with Zolo that they look far to monotonous since you add headings to each column when they only have one row of content for the games that have only one character with the arte in question. That visual format should be left only for the arte lists. In fact, we don't really need tables, unless you format them similar to an infobox-style template, so that the headings would line the left side instead of the top, overall compressing the table width significantly.
Following through with what I said about Lanate's positioning of the voiced quotes within each game section, I believe the arte attributes should also be listed in the same area, so the reader does not have to scroll back and forth between the descriptions and the specifics of the arte itself. A "description and history" section might not be entirely necessary, but a base description must be provided in the opening paragraph to show the general basics of the arte. At the very least, I want to completely get rid of "recurring spell" or other mindless blather like that - we know it's recurring, like everything else in the series. Describe the arte or spell. Define its properties across each game. Point out any similarities and differences. Mention how they might relate to other attacks of the series, within the same family of attacks or not.
Now within each section for a certain game, the descriptions there should provide game-specific information, and possibly usage strategies or other tricks/specials/glitches that may be helpful to know. And of course, transcribed in-game descriptions and quotations, in both Japanese and English if possible. Include fan-translations for these things as well, as long as they are clearly labeled and cited.
Is that clear enough for you? I would like very much to experiment for myself how to make everything work in physical form, since I have a mental vision of how everything would look, but who are we kidding, I'm not going to waste my time trying to do that. Take your own initiatives, and don't bother me about them. I would only prefer for those pages to be left in peace, like any other foul creature of the undead, and focus on specific things that might actually require updating if this wiki is to be regarded any better than it is now. I could come up with a really stupid analogy right now involving zombies and jetpacks, but maybe that's pushing things a bit too far...
Mayu Miyuki 21:17, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Okay geesh no need to write a lot. -_- --Emil Castagnier 00:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

No, I'm the one who sounds like a hypocrite. I'm sorry, I just felt confused and a little frustrated, and I didn't have much time on the computer to think everything properly through, so I had to write the first things that came to my mind. I'm really sorry.

I tried out a new methiod (if I managed to understand you right), and if you could look at it:

User(s) Genis Sage Kratos Aurion Zelos Wilder
Localized Arte Name Fire Ball Fire Ball Fire Ball
TP Cost 7 7 7
Attribute(s) Fire Fire Fire
Arte Type Novice Spell Novice Spell Novice Spell
Requirements Default Default Default


The problem would probably bee how to display the incantation. To have all them in one section would be meaningless, byyt I can't find a proper way to display them in this. Can someone help?

Penamesolen 08:13, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Maybe you can plain out write the incantation below the box :p

User(s) Genis Sage Kratos Aurion Zelos Wilder
Localized Arte Name Fire Ball Fire Ball Fire Ball
TP Cost 7 7 7
Attribute(s) Fire Fire Fire
Arte Type Novice Spell Novice Spell Novice Spell
Requirements Default Default Default
Incantation (NA) "Get Him! Fireball!" "Take that! Fireball!" "Ready for this? Fireball!"
Incantation (JP) "Get Him! Fireball!" "Take that! Fireball!" "Ready for this? Fireball!"


Incantation: *insert Incantation Here* But that's just a suggestion >_>

--GenoWhirl24 19:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

But all three have different incantations. Like in Fire Ball, Genis has "Get him!", Kratos has "Take this!" and Zelos doesn't have any (I think it was "Ready for this?"). If Japanese and localized incantations are provided for all of them, how will that go?
Penamesolen 19:55, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
User(s) Genis Sage Kratos Aurion Zelos Wilder
Localized Arte Name Fire Ball Fire Ball Fire Ball
TP Cost 7 7 7
Attribute(s) Fire Fire Fire
Arte Type Novice Spell Novice Spell Novice Spell
Requirements Default Default Default
Incantation (NA) "Get Him! Fireball!" "Take that! Fireball!" "Ready for this? Fireball!"
Incantation (JP) "Get Him! Fireball!" "Take that! Fireball!" "Ready for this? Fireball!"


I dunno how it would fit into indignation though, Lol.

Again it was a suggestion, did not expect it to work >->

--GenoWhirl24 20:02, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

We could do the same that they did with Rita's Fire Ball; making colspans. Then the extra information could be displayed in the "Arte description and history"-section =/.

I'll try it out on an arte page with more incantation, just to see how it goes.

But yes, you're right it would be a problem with Indignation XD

...If this continues, we'll end up having one version for each arte XD

Penamesolen 20:10, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Ugh what the hell, don't put incantations in the tables! Display them as part of the descriptions, the way they are done on the pages for the Summon/Craymel Spirits pages. Do the same with the game descriptions. Do NOT put them in the table boxes - they will only end up stretching the tables, even if you use colspan to expand the boxes. Why would you have a full Indignation chant squeezed into a tiny box, or any fixed-size box, for god's sake!?
Why are you still trying to stick to that table format anyway? I don't want this kind of format to be used, since again it looks exactly the same as the arte lists no matter how the data is positioned, which I said I don't want! Make them in the style you make the character or infobox templates, though obviously embedded into the page and not floated to the right or bottom. Do not use row/column line boundaries. Shrink the cellpadding space. Use smaller font. Change the colors perhaps, but keep it consistent within all pages that use this format.
Why am I still.... ugh. Do whatever you want. Even if it makes me want to gag at the kind of ideas that are being proposed. The best remedy is to see this all done and over with, but no one else wants to let that happen.
Mayu Miyuki 20:53, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Geez, it was just a suggestion, no need to get super grumpy about it ._.

We'll figure out a way to organize the artes pages, someday, somehow >->

--GenoWhirl24 20:56, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I worked hard on the Spirits pages! ...even if the format was half-stolen from the FF wiki and I'm not done.
Um, ditch the tables, but maybe...? Maybe you could do it like the Spirits pages. I used ====This header==== for the incantation sections, but you could do more if there are more differences. Lanate (talk) 21:12, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, maybe I'm just in a period that says "tables rule!" or something =/ I'm just a little confused when the more complicated English comes, like cellpadding, boundaries, column, etc. So yeah, maybe it's just to leave it as it was (just changing the "Skill" to "Arte" and so on.
Penamesolen 21:26, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Someone should go and make Demon Fang, Fireball, and Icicle what they were, then. (but don't undo Icicle, or alot of info will be lost D:)


--GenoWhirl24 21:33, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Haha, don't worry, it's just to find the layout and copy/past the information over. I've done that a couple of times ^^.
Penamesolen 21:46, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Assassin/Final Fury

Like ToD PSX - Stahn Aileron: Artes since ND3 was made near the time it was still localized as Assassin it wouldve been translated as that if it came out in english. Either way, i guess people will get the point of the attack.

LGameTales 15:33, March 18, 2009 (PDT)

Uh no. Most recent name by today's standards only. Observe the format:
localization for that game is used as the bolded link; if no localization exists, the Japanese name is listed instead
kanji/kana
romaji in italics, if not already listed as the link
(most recent localized name in parentheses), if different from the game's localization
PSX Stahn (localized game)
Assassin
殺劇舞荒剣
Satsugeki Bukouken
(Final Fury)
---
NariDan 3 Stahn AND Farah (nonlocalized game)
Satsugeki Bukouken
殺劇舞荒剣
(Final Fury)
This is a set format. I thought this through in detail when I created it, so please follow the system correctly.
Mayu Miyuki 22:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

The way to display the artes

If information for something (hit counts, etc) is unknown, just put a "?" instead of "unknown hits". That way, it's more obvious for someone to add in that information if they know it.
Concerning the "functions" listings, go ahead and add them to the arte details. The description/history section is used to describe the purpose of the artes, but the actual specifics like HP percentages healed should be noted with the other details. In fact, you should rename the "Arte Requirements" section to "Arte Details", since it isn't just "requirements" anymore. Keep it separated by mothership/escort games if you want. I should emphasize that the description/history section is mostly to describe the artes and their changes or similarities throughout the series, and most importantly the history of the arte and its possible evolution (Stone Press -> Add Pressure -> Air Pressure/Dreaded Wave, or Valkyrie -> Sharpness), not to give the raw specifics that will be mentioned in the details section anyway.
For incantations and in-game descriptions, I'd rather have a separate section devoted to listing those. The descriptions are almost always listed on the various JP wiki sites, so those things may as well be ported over to our wiki, but I doubt anyone has the time to transcribe them directly (so for whoever will do this, don't bother to translate or transcribe them unless you need to practice your Nipponese skills, it's not worth the effort). I always did want to have the game descriptions listed from the very beginning, just not embedded with the rest of the data since it's mixed with everything else, making it hard to read and compare. (Maybe that was lost somewhere in my bouts of irritation before, but if you're going to bother with re-re-redoing those pages again, I might as well clarify myself.)
One minor addendum:
Japanese Incantation: unformatted text
Romanization: italicized text (no quotes)
Transliteration: "italicized text with quotes"
Localized Incantation: "quoted text"
The same should apply to description text. It also helps to reduce the overabundance of quotation marks. Also notice that I use "transliteration" instead of "translation", and "localized" instead of "English". These are minor details, but I want to be able to add the translations from various fan-translation groups, so in those cases, "Localized Incantation" would be replaced by "Translated Incantation (DeJap)" or whatever the group/translator name is. "Transliteration" is a better term to use for the third entry, since these are usually the most literal phrasings of the original Japanese text. And by the way, if the localization and the translit. is almost identical, except for a few token words, just delete the translit. line, to avoid pointless redundancy.
As I said, the battle quotes and descriptions should be in a separate section, "In-Game Descriptions and Battle Quotes", between the arte history and the details sections. Separate them by game, then by character if the quotes are different. The description block goes before the quote block, for each character. Keep each block of [J R "T" "L"] together as one unit, unless the quotes involve some sort of dialogue exchange (Morisson's Indignation, all of the Rebirth hi ougi quotes), where the whole dialogue block would be collected like a stanza verse and translated as a group. Basically the same way Indignation is set up now, if you need an example, though it could be made to look much neater or more compressed. (If only we had Encyclopedia Dramatica's collapsible text section functions... which I can't link to due to not-work-safe...-ness. I don't know of other wiki groups that use similar functions.)
Everything else? I don't rightly care how you'll display those. I want to set up a template where all of this info could be added in a way that allows each individual arte from each character in each game to be displayed in a variety of formats, from a simple list (like it is now), to a compressed table for side-by-side display, to a sortable row entry (for insertion into the arte lists with the same dynamic sorting functions), the same way the Seal Online Wiki set up each of their monster entries. You (and I) have no idea how much time this would take to set up, and I'd rather just add new information that actually helps this wiki expand (and finally soften the Team Symphonia bias this place still has), than play around with formatting old information from projects that I don't even remember what I had hoped to accomplish with them. That's why I've been working on new things, in between all the other fun stuff I'm working on at other sites, whenever I'm not tied down to Real Life™. I'm trying not to be insulting this time, so if you think your work will help the wiki grow, then I shouldn't be the one to stand in your way.
What we really need, is someone with the necessary MediaWiki editing skills and experience to establish a veritable infrastructure for this wiki, involving all possible template and category trees, instead of a small handfew of fans who are clearly in over their heads with all of this work and experimentation.
Why did I end up writing another massive wall on this subject of all things.
Mayu Miyuki 20:42, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I made my changes. Some were minor things (like removing all of the periods from the details... since those are not sentences that require punctuation). The most important thing is the description/history text.
Try not to describe every instance of every game. Most of the games are similar enough to make it unnecessary (only things like Senkuureppa and Demon's Lance were radically different depending on the game), and we don't need pointless redundancy when there's enough of it elsewhere throughout the page.
And what's this about Team Symphonia? They only created a spell that would go in between Nurse and Revitalize. That's all. I was tempted to say something about how Healing Circle basically took on basically the same effect Revitalize had in Eternia, just to make the Team Symphonia reference obsolete. Vesperia is not even Team Symphonia, it's a combination of both NTS "teams" known as Project Vesperia. I don't think the Hearts team is even named. Team Destiny has only three games: Destiny 2, Rebirth, and Destiny PS2 (somewhat); the original Destiny and Eternia were by Telnet Japan, before it got bought out by Namco and renamed to NTS. Besides, "team" names are irrelevant nowadays, since most of the people in the original "teams" have retired or moved on.
Anyway, I redid the section to add strategies and consideration points, since that sort of thing is always useful to know. People can find out the specific details like percentages or whatever in the "details" section, so there's no reason to point them out in the description text. The bit at the end about the Abyss FOF, this is intended to be an overall listing of "alterations" or "options" an arte might have, like extra hits when a certain passive is equipped (mostly for Emil and Karol's artes), or complete arte replacements ("altered artes" in most of the games).
Mayu Miyuki 20:48, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
You know, I just realized something. Should we be using "Magic Arte" instead of "Spell"? At least for Symphonia and maybe RadiMai? Lanate (talk) 02:40, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
@Lanate: To be honest, I agree. At least in RadiMai, it says that the type of arte is called "Magic", and not "Spell".
Penamesolen 17:52, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I guess we can add another line break (<br>) in between the description and voiced text. I don't know how else we can make it more clear, unless we set up the translation stuff within more subsections, which would be convoluted at best.
Also, it occurred to me that some artes have extra/alternate words that appear at the top of the screen during the attack (Shining Bind from ToS PS2 has something that translates to "Flutter of Scarlet Flames" for Kratos, and "Angel Conversion" for Zelos, whatever the JP equivalents of those were; then in ToD2 there's the stuff that appears during Judas' monologue with failure and LOLHILEON versions), so we need to add those things in too.
Magic? Sure, use it if the game shows it. Magic Artes? I don't think the term is ever used with "artes" added to it, and I don't want to establish it on this wiki (which is why I undid so many references to it on other pages before). The only spell "arte" terms are Craymel Artes, Fonic Artes, and Crystal Eres (which is different anyway). If Magic makes more sense than Spell, then change it. Actually, now that I think of it, Majutsu should always have been Magic instead of Spell... afkjasldfwryyyyy.
self-sage for shitty internet oh wait wrong site.
Mayu Miyuki 01:26, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Radiant Mythology

What uniques you got? I've got a Red Shield, Golden Helm, Gale Staff, Bahamut's Tear, and Beulosthel. We can compare %s to see if they're the same or not.

And I really wish I could show you my French Bread. It's just funny. I'd go "Majinpan!" and "Pansazame!" if it could go with my Swordy. Lanate (talk) 02:46, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Let me see... I've got Gale Staff, Kotetsu, Bahamut's Tear, Eternal Sword, Excalibur, Exzarl, Charmir, Beulosthel, Angel Halo, Golden Helm, Tamagushi Gauntlet and Hyper Gauntlet.
And haha, that would be funny. I knew they had a shield as a chocolate, but a French bread? Go pwn everybody you see! So your class is Swordsman? I prefer Thief, because I'm a fan of fast and numerous attacks, however weak they are.
Penamesolen 08:12, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Same here; my original class was the Fighter (and Priest before that; couldn't handle being on the sidelines). The problem was, he had nothing to take care of groups, esp. if he was surrounded, so I ended up switching to Swordsman for the Light Spear attacks. They're the only thing which saved my ass during the 3v1; that and the armor which meant all P. Atks did single digit damage. 'Course, that didn't stop Genis's Meteor Storm from almost ending me, but, meh.

My Gale Staff:

  • HP +9%
  • Wpn. PWR +21%
  • Casting time -3%
  • TP usage -6%
  • Agility +3
  • Over Limit +4%

Bahamut's Tear:

  • HP +16%
  • Wpn. PWR +37%
  • Fire DEF+
  • Agility +2

+4%

  • Over Limit +7%

Beulosthel:

  • Amr. PWR +44%
  • Critical +7%
  • TP usage -3%
  • Field Speed +7%
  • Over Limit +3%
  • Item Drop +33%

Golden Helm:

  • Amr. PWR +53%
  • Light DEF+
  • Critical +7%
  • EXP +3%
  • Over Limit +1%
  • Item Drop +14%

Red Shield:

  • HP +22%
  • TP +8%
  • Amr. PWR +15%
  • Critical +6%
  • TP usage -3%
  • Grade +4%
As you can tell, I really don't like going into Magic Maps (I get disappointed when all I come out with is some levels and a yellow afro). I have a nifty set of chocolates which Arche dropped though. I like my Flatfish from the exchange better though.
I kinda miss when all those afro stuff could be gotten through random choice download. =/ Got a lot of crossdressing stuff though. Lanate (talk) 09:20, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
My plan was originally to have the closest thing to sword-user (which then was the Thief), find the Magic Knight inviation and become a Magic Knight at default. But I realized that the Thief was genius with its Ange-combo, and that I had problems using the Magic Knight's moves and artes, so I sticked with the Thief, though the Magic Knight is the runner-up in my list (with Lv.46, and with my Thief on Lv.111). And I don't like the magic users, so I only use them to get their Radiants and Uniques. When it comes to avoid Meteor Storm, I always stand at one are while he is preparing, and then run off when he casts it, as RM's Meteor Storm focuses on one area, and not the whole thing. For the heck of it, I survived Widdershin's Meteor Storm with my 6-leveled Priest with that strategy XD
Uh, okay. The skills are the exact same (even the elemental defenses are the same), but the percentages are very different. So then we know that the weapons don't have the same amount, but the same skills, so I suggest that we have the skills there, but not the percentages. Or do you have any better ideas?
I recently began going into the Magic Maps, if only to get the pink Chick Suit C (lol and beyond, try to watch the ending sequence with that suit on XD), then I ended up with two Chich Suits, two Frog Suits, one Agro Wig (green, not yellow, though) and lots of Uniques (Eternal Swoooooooooooooord~...). Beside, it was at the Magic Map I got the ToS-cast into lv.45 so that they could learn their Mystic Artes.
Was it possible to download the exhange equipment before? I haven't heard of that.
Penamesolen 11:44, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I want more Uniques, but I don't have the patience for long dungeons. And I'll still in late 50's due to said Swordy training.

I got the JP RadiMai before I realized that it was getting an NA release. It had online support where you could post characters online for other people to download as Mercs and have a weekly giftbag of items, a lot of which are random drops or exchanges in the NA. Lanate (talk) 07:32, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

By the way, are there arte lists or something out there for the mercenaries that were added to the NA/PAL versions? Or are they just generic characters directly based on the existing player classes?
Mayu Miyuki 12:15, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Huh, so they changed the system in the NA/PAL. Although it would have been cool to download all that (like the French Bread and things like that), I think it's okay that we can get it from random drops, as well, as I don't usually download things like that.
@Mayu Miyuki: They are generic characters directly based on the existing player classes, and they change level to suit the player's.
Penamesolen 12:32, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Absolute Zero's translated names

Just letting you know - Throughhim and Gemini's patch for Phantasia included two separate translation options. The first is to maintain all romanized names, but using that method of spacing and diacritics markup that I directly oppose (Majinken, Hōō Tenku, Majin Sōhazan). The other option is to "translate" everything using the terms they thought would be a "more accurate" direct translation for the artes; sometimes they match the localized names, but other times they end up being different, almost for the sake of being different (Demonic Blade, Rising Phoenix, ...no idea about others since I haven't played that far with their patch).

Their patch for Innocence is set to have three options. The first two are identical to what they did for their Phantasia patch. The third choice is to maintain consistency with current localizations, and naming the unlocalized artes "in the style" of Hometek's names.

I want to be able to list all versions of the names for each arte on their pages. This includes all of Absolute Zero's translation options, and the same applies to Phantasian Production's Romanized/Localized/Japanese options as well (the "Japanese" option just keeps Suzu's artes in romanized form, like with Kuchinawa's arte localizations in Symphonia, while everything else remains localized).

Yumemi Hoshino (talk) 11:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Maybe I should just let the names stay with question marks until someone who has played the patch can fix it. I've already got the GBA game, so I won't do it. Thank you for telling me. -Penamesolen 07:35, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Char templates should not go on the non-char pages

I'm certain I said this before, but I suppose it doesn't hurt to repeat one more time. Since the equipment and weapon pages for each game tend to be shared by multiple chars, they are not character-specific. So don't use their char templates on those pages.

Just add the templates to the pages that have the chars' names in the page title (ie. ToV - Judith: Artes, ToV - Judith: Titles), and remove them from all other pages. After all, the point of the char templates is to provide a quick link to the things that apply to a single char only, specifically the artes/titles/skills. I don't care if you want to keep the links to their weapon/equip/whatever pages on the templates, but don't put the templates on those pages.

As for the colors, I'm sure I warned you before you started making the templates, that changing colors for each char makes for dozens of color combinations to fit each char, with more chars appearing all the time since Namdai JP refuses to slow down with releasing its 5+ Tales games every year. If this were up to me, I would like to backtrack through each of the templates and give all of them a single set of colors for continuity, since some of your color choices are nearly unreadable (yellow with white text), or they just don't fit the character (Annie has a brown scheme now? wha-- whe-- why? Ricardo and Eugene fit this scheme better, and perfectly so, with both of their Earth-elemental affinities and Gouhasou...). I think the color variance just does a disservice to you, requiring you to take the effort to see what looks good or not, when everyone else will have different opinions. But in the end, it's your own project, so it's your choice.

EDIT - And since we have char templates at all, shouldn't each char get his/her own? It's not fair to give them to chars that have appeared in multiple games, since incredible chars like Ange and Tytree would be left out, possibly forever due to lolfanbasewhoring. The way I see it, the templates would help with category organization, and with navigation between all relevant pages for each character. All of the chars in the Symphonia+earlier era of games have templates anyway, so it isn't that much more of an extension to include everyone else, excluding chars from the more obscure spinoff games.

Yumemi Hoshino (talk) 23:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
- edited 23:16, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Haha, for a moment I thought you were talking about the CharInfo-templates, and I went all "WTF I haven't been using them at all".
Not even if they are only used by the character herself (i.e. Judith's coats)? Does the weapons count for that, as well?
If you want, I can change the colors to the neutral light-blue we have on the game templates. It was mostly for the sake of them to look different from the game templates, as well as reflect some of their own color traits (which is easier on some than others) in them. Since it seems like that gets pretty hard, I can go over to the normal one. And about Annie's color: mostly, the colors I chose were based on the hair color, while some others, like Lloyd or Kratos, were based on the colors of their clothes.
Out from my understanding of what you said in the template talk for Colette's artes, you originally wanted the character templates to replace the "See also" on the character articles. Since, with Tytree (who only appeared in his own game), his specific information is on the game template, I thought that it was just putting the game template there, and then the reader would get them. But if you want, I can do it.
Oh, and while we're making a discussion about specific information articles, do you have a better name for the "specific names" that Dhaos and Barbie have on their character templates? I only took "enemy artes" and "costume artes", but if you have anything better in mind (or a sudden urge to write a 4'000 words-length rant XP), can you tell, please?
Penamesolen 07:58, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
All weapon/equip/item/game system pages belong to the game, and not to the character. That's why we don't use the chars' names in their titles, and by extension we shouldn't use their personal templates on those same pages. Even if a single char uses one type of equipment, if we add templates to those pages, we must add them to everything for consistency... and then we end up with templates for every char in the game for things like the Support Artes page for Hearts, which again, belong to the game and not to any individual character.
You can keep the colors if you really like them. I'm just telling you my opinion about them, but I can't force you to make any changes on this aspect. I'm mostly concerned about using the templates on the wrong pages.
The costume artes are still artes, so use "Artes". And I never decided about the whole enemy thing, but artes would have to be part of an enemy info and strategy page, since enemies like Kaiser Dist and Sword Dancer have a max of 4 named attacks. And enemies aren't constrained by TP (after Symphonia) or levels, only HP contingencies, so it may as well become a simple list instead of a table. I don't think I'll ever get around to starting something like that (not that I want to go through that torture in the first place!), so you should just remove those entries from the Dhaos/Barbatos/Celsius/Valkyrie templates, whichever ones already exist. You can leave the game listings there, to show that they appear in each game, even if they have no other data associated with them.
Yumemi Hoshino (talk) 14:04, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for correcting me on the categorization clarification. I appreciate it :3 Pictomancer 20:21, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Flamberge article

Thanks for adding the links-Nathbud789

References in the {{nihongo}} tag

Please don't cite any references in the {{nihongo}} tag on the individual arte pages if the arte names are written in katakana. The kana can be "transcribed" by anyone with a passing knowledge of Japanese phonetics, and a source is entirely unnecessary because everyone will always get the same thing no matter where they look (unless they use a different romanization system like Wikipedia does).

The references should be added only for artes written with kanji names, where the translation is an "interpretation" of the user, and in most cases, comes copied directly from KusanagiLord02's comprehensive arte guide on GameFAQs. Kiko's guide for RadiMai has no arte translations, so it can never be used as a source within {{nihongo}}. Go ahead and list it under "external links" if you need to.

It's the same as with battle quotes - "transcriptions" can be done by anyone, and should never be sourced. The actual translations are personal "interpretation", and therefore must be sourced unless someone on this wiki creates their own translation.

Byakuren Hijiri (talk) 14:23, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

I'll do the last part, but in 99,99% of the cases, the references are already in the nihongo-tag when I come to edit (may it be kanji-artes or katakane-artes). I just guessed that it was supposed to be like that, so I never did anything to it. But in most of the arte pages I create, I never ut the reference in the nihongo-tag because, well, as you said, it isn't neccessary. Though I'll remember what you said about the translation for battle quotes. Thanks for telling.
Penamesolen 14:44, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Arte name displays

Penamesolen? Since you and LGameTales work on the arte pages a lot, I'd like input over at Forum:Pages with Multiple Artes. Lanate (talk) 19:01, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

Arte layout (don't care about it)

Because I try to edit a lot of arte pages so that the existing arte pages no longer are stubs (because we all know that most of the stubs are, in fact, artes), I let this layout or whatever it's called stay here so that I (and maybe others) can get access to it. I was originally supposed to have it taken away, but I figured this is still easier.

By the way, if anyone know of other links or sources to where to find in-game descriptions, please tell. Also, if you know of some performances, Forum:Video Resources is the place we have most of them. Please and thank you.

==Arte Description and History==

==Appearances==
===Mothership Titles===
'''[[Tales of Phantasia]]''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of Destiny]]''' - [[]] ()
<br>'''[[Tales of Phantasia (PSX)|Tales of Phantasia]] (PSX) + [[Tales of Phantasia ~ Full Voice Edition|Full Voice Edition]] (PSP)''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of Eternia]]''' - [[]] ()
<br>'''[[Tales of Destiny 2]]''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of Phantasia (GBA)|Tales of Phantasia]] (GBA)''' - [[]] ()
<br>'''[[Tales of Symphonia]]''' - [[]] ()
<br>'''[[Tales of Symphonia]] (PS2)''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of Rebirth]]''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of Legendia]]''' - [[]] ()
<br>'''[[Tales of the Abyss]]''' - [[]] ()
<br>'''[[Tales of Destiny (PS2)|Tales of Destiny]] (PS2) + [[Tales of Destiny: Director's Cut|Director's Cut]]''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of Innocence]]''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of Destiny: Director's Cut]] (PS2)''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of Vesperia]] (Demo)''' - [[]] ()
<br>'''[[Tales of Vesperia]]''' - [[]] ()
<br>'''[[Tales of Hearts]]''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of Vesperia]] (PS3; Demo)''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of Vesperia]] (PS3)''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of Graces]]''' - [[]]

===Escort Titles===
'''[[Tales of the World: Narikiri Dungeon 2]]''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of the World: Narikiri Dungeon 3]]''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of Mobile: Tales of Breaker]]''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of Mobile: Tales of Commons]]''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of Eternia Online]]''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of the Tempest]]''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of Mobile: Tales of Wahrheit]]''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of the World: Radiant Mythology]]''' - [[]] ()
<br>'''[[Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World]]''' - [[]] ()
<br>'''[[Tales of the World: Radiant Mythology 2]]''' - [[]]
<br>'''[[Tales of VS.]]''' - [[]]

==Fan-Translated Names==
'''[[Tales of Phantasia]] (SFC) ([[DeJap Translations]]):''' ?
<br>'''[[Tales of Phantasia]] (PSX) ([[Absolute Zero]]):''' ?
<br>'''[[Tales of the World: Narikiri Dungeon 2]] ([[Kajitani-Eizan]]):''' ?
<br>'''[[Tales of the World: Narikiri Dungeon 3]] ([[Kajitani-Eizan]]):''' ?

==In-Game Descriptions and Battle Quotes==
===Tales of Phantasia===
'''Japanese Description:''' ?
<br>'''Romanization:''' ?
<br>'''Translation:''' ?
<br>'''Translated Description ([[DeJap Translations]]):''' ""<ref name="ToP-SFC">[http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/588771/10727 ''Tales of Phantasia'' (SNES) FAQ/Walkthrough Part 2/2 by JPuga] [http://www.gamefaqs.com/ GameFAQs] (2001) Retrieved on 2008-03-07.</ref>

===Tales of Destiny===
'''Localized Description:''' ""<ref name="ToD-PSX">[http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/198886/13403 ''Tales of Destiny'' (PS) FAQ/Walkthrough by CMoriarty / Psycho Penguin] [http://www.gamefaqs.com/ GameFAQs] (2002) Retrieved on 2009-03-07.</ref>

===Tales of Eternia===
'''Localized Description:''' ""<ref name="ToE-PSX">[http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/526350/14274 ''Tales of Destiny II'' (PS) FAQ/Walkthrough Part 1/2 by Psycho Penguin] [http://www.gamefaqs.com/ GameFAQs] (2002) Retrieved on 2009-03-07.</ref>

===Tales of Phantasia (GBA)===
'''Japanese Description:''' ?
<br>'''Romanization:''' ?
<br>'''Translation:''' ?
<br>'''Localized Description:''' ""<ref name="ToP-GBA">[http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/file/582247/42012 ''Tales of Phantasia'' (GBA) FAQ/Walkthrough by sonicfreak77] [http://www.gamefaqs.com/ GameFAQs] (2007) Retrieved on 2009-03-07.</ref>

===Tales of Symphonia===
'''Localized Description:''' ""<ref name="ToS">[http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/file/561316/32889 ''Tales of Symphonia'' (GC) Technique FAQ by DarthMarth] [http://www.gamefaqs.com/ GameFAQs] (2005) Retrieved on 2009-03-07.</ref>

===Tales of Legendia===
'''Localized Description:''' ""<ref name="ToL-PS2">[http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/926504/42186 ''Tales of Legendia'' (PS2) Eres Guide by AncientNova] [http://www.gamefaqs.com/ GameFAQs] (2006) Retrieved on 2009-03-07.</ref>

===Tales of the Abyss===
'''Localized Description:''' ""<ref name="TotA-PS2">[http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/929343/45706 Tales of the Abyss (PS2) FAQ/Walkthrough by Gray Fox] [http://www.gamefaqs.com/ GameFAQs] (2007) Retrieved on 2009-06-20.</ref>

===Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World===
'''Localized Description:''' ""<ref name="ToS:DotNW">[http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/942210/54961 ''Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World'' (WII) FAQ/Walkthrough by HolyLancer9] [http://www.gamefaqs.com/ GameFAQs] (2008-12-03) Retrieved on 2009-06-20.</ref>

===Tales of Vesperia===
'''Localized Description:''' ""<ref name="ToV">[http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/file/945075/54222 ''Tales of Vesperia'' (X360) FAQ/Walkthrough by drachemeister] [http://www.gamefaqs.com/ GameFAQs] (2008) Retrieved on 2009-06-20.</ref>

==References==
<small>
<references/>
</small>

==External links==
*[http://tales.namco.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=65612 ~Tales of Incantations~ by Judgey]
*[http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/929343/43146 Tales Series Translation FAQ by KusanagiLord02]

{{MagArtes}}

ToS:DotNW came after ToV, forgot that until NOW e_e

DotNW's localization came after Vesperia, yes, but Vesperia (Xbox360) was released after DotNW in Japan. North America and Europe switched the release order. Probably unnecessary knowledge, but it's just in case you need to change something again.
Byakuren Hijiri (talk) 14:28, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Tales of Eternia

Is it a good game because I have all tales games in america other than destiny and eternia(Destiny 2). Would you recommed others playing tales of eternia. Because from what I've seen on Youtube it seems cool. The only time I've been able to play as Reid is in Radient Mythology. If you could give a response on my talk page that would be awesome. - Nathbud789

Location Pages

Mayu made a good point about you having good ideas for content pages. Do you have any idea for a good format for the location pages? I'd be grateful for input at Forum:Location Pages. Thanks! Lanate (talk) 04:44, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

Long time, no see, not much to say.

What can I say, I've really betrayed you guys for months now, and for no good reason except finding a poor wiki for a show I somewhat like and taking care of it, but that doesn't matter.

I probably won't be here as much yet, as I have missed a lot and need to catch up with everything. However, I thought if anyone were interested, it seemed like the Tales Studio might be shut down in some years because of bankrupty: [3]

That's kind of all, I'm sorry I'm not here as often as before, but I'll try soon. I miss being here, but I also see that you are all doing well, as always.

Penamesolen 21:56, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Oh it's no problem, we're just crawling along like we usually do anyway. I haven't done a whole lot myself due to one thing or another, but my own schedule finally cleared up like two days ago.
As for the link, I don't even have to click on it to know it's just the usual sensational propaganda made by Artefact, the admin of Sankaku Complex. His writings are humourous if you don't take them seriously, and you should never take anything he writes seriously, otherwise you'll end up raging every day at his overglorification of "ToV Perfect Edition", and his meticulous focus on every possible facet of oppai culture in Japan. Don't be one of those people who toss around links to his site just because it implies something bad might happen, when he's saying those things to get more clicks on his website.
An actual conversation on Namco Tales Studio and its financial woes is happening on the official Namco Tales forums, where he probably took his news from and sensationalized it to begin with. It's more likely that the main losses were sustained by Bandai Namco Games itself, and since NTS is a branch of BGNI that is usually not counted in financial reports, BGNI likely just dumped a large amount of its deficits into NTS to make the recent layoffs and revenue losses at the main company less damaging to preserve their image to stockholders. NTS is just suffering from BGNI and its financial decisions, just like always - this is why NTS is forced to release some five or more games each year nowadays, more bad decisions from the guys at the top, which only perpetuate the losses further. It's hardly any surprise, and NTS just needs to cool off for a few years before making their next game.
Byakuren Hijiri (talk) 22:16, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

This is spam, please ignore.

May you please describe the characters appearances by describing their,hair color,hairstyle,eye color and outfit

(Dcrigg)

Sorry to disturb you since you haven't been around in ages, but this user is a spammer and has already been banned. Please disregard.
Byakuren Hijiri (talk) 22:41, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

the tale of games are pretty cool

(Koromoamae)

More spam. Please ignore.

Moviebaby (talk) 16:24, May 4, 2014 (UTC)

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